What Hotel Leaders Get Wrong About Commercial Strategy ft. Dury Kim
My old intern Dury Kim now runs commercial strategy
Dury Kim interned for me at the Crowne Plaza Times Square. Today she's SVP of Commercial Strategy, and she was named the 2025 New York City Revenue and Distribution Executive of the Year. The promotion and the award came in the same quarter, so I asked her what commercial strategy actually means.
Everyone is a revenue thinker
Dury realised revenue management was bigger than pricing and forecasting when she moved from analyst to director. The job was a lot of fire drills. An airline shuts down one day and everyone floods your hotels.
Her definition of commercial strategy is that everyone is "a revenue generator and a revenue thinker." Each department keeps its own responsibilities, but "everybody has the same goal." Without that you get silos. Revenue drives the top line, sales says "I got to make my incentives. Let's bring in all the groups," and then operations complains that so-and-so overbooked the property with a group.
How she builds it
Her order is bench first, then communication and then direction. That means a support network, the right people talking to each other with a plan, and someone above it all who can say this isn't working, let's pivot. She adds flexibility on top, since nobody can predict the pandemics or the government shutdowns. I said anyone who could would be very rich. She said she'd probably be in politics.
When I was in the revenue seat, we sent the front desk a daily newsletter with the goal for rooms sold, the rates we'd take for walk-ins, and the hotels we'd call if we were oversold. Overselling a hotel hits different when the front desk knows why you're doing it, and it takes the edge off that picture of the revenue manager in an ivory tower calling shots. Dury added that a plan everyone agrees on gives people the power to sell rooms within those limits.
The three hour commute
My first director role was at the Renaissance Westchester, and the year before it I'd been laid off three times in one calendar year. I knew that job had to work. I picked Dury as my right hand, and she commuted three hours one way, every day, to do it.
She kept that commute going for a couple of directors after me, maybe two and a half years by her count. In her words, "I don't think I would've been here today if I didn't make that, you know, sacrifice of time."
I always told her I was training her as if I'd work for her one day. She's an SVP now, so if this celebrity thing doesn't work out, I know who I'm calling. She says mentorship shaped her own leadership, and that "hoarding knowledge is, like, a detriment to yourself and even the individual that you're training." She volunteers every summer at the intercollegiate conference in New York to mentor students.
What separates the best commercial teams
Dury's answer was openness. Commercial teams hire very smart people with a lot of conviction, and those people need to "listen to understand" and find the why behind what a colleague is saying. The best teams, in her view, have smart people who are also flexible and can defend their strategy politely when someone pokes holes in it.
A strategy you can't explain isn't a strategy. In marketing, when someone just doesn't like an influencer partnership, that's a feeling. A strategy gets backed up with reach, impressions, engagement and growth. Dury's rule is that if you believe it's the wrong strategy, you suggest an alternative, because "a decision must be made."
Getting to the executive table
Her advice for future leaders opened with "It's a lot of politicking. I'm not going to lie." You keep growing and go above and beyond, and as an executive you ask "how can I help." I added that sometimes it's as simple as going to the happy hours, because your bosses will be there. It's marketing yourself, the same reason Pepsi puts ads around the court. For remote employees, Dury says to show up "when it matters." Right person, right time, just like revenue management.
The awkward part
Her most awkward moment came when she won the award. They don't tell you until you're there in person, and nobody told her to prepare a speech, so hers was very short and she missed people she wanted to thank. Then there was a summit for one of her owners, where she travelled without a toothbrush or toothpaste. She doesn't drive and they were in the middle of nowhere, so she had to ask her brand new digital marketing director to pick some up at the supermarket.
We go through all of this in the full episode. Watch on YouTube or listen on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
Calvin and the Revpar Media team build hotel marketing that drives bookings, from social media management to influencer campaigns.
Book a 30-minute callFull transcript
Dury Kim If you have that opportunity, maybe it's a three hour commute, but it doesn't look ideal. But when you really want to do make the jump and make the leap. Because if you told me, then I be SVP of commercial now, I'd probably be like, yeah, right.
Calvin Tilokee Today's guest is Dairy Kim, SVP of Commercial Strategy and one of the hospitality industry's most respected commercial leaders. What makes Dairy Story particularly interesting is that she didn't start at the executive level. She started as an intern, worked her way through revenue management, and ultimately became one of the industry's leading voices on commercial strategy. Most recently, she was recognized as the 2025 Revenue and Distribution Executive of the Year by New York City.
Dury Kim Commercial strategy. To me means like almost everybody is involved and everyone is a revenue generator and a revenue thinker. I think that that's pretty much the core essence of commercial strategy. So like, not that everyone has like the same responsibility per se, but everybody has the same goal.
Calvin Tilokee In this conversation, we explore how commercial strategy has evolved, why revenue, marketing, sales and distribution can no longer operate in silos, and what hospitality leaders need to do to stay competitive in today's market. I'm Calvin Tilokee and this is socially awkward. So when did you realize that revenue management was becoming something bigger than just pricing and forecasting?
Dury Kim The first time I came to a realization that was beyond pricing in forecasting was when I started to transition from like analyst to director, because once you have that directory of titles, there's a lot of people who rely on you and ask you a lot of questions. So then the capacity to like, learn and grow beyond what, you know, just pricing and forecasting and even inventory management has started to kind of go boon. I think the biggest thing is understanding how like the different departments had work too. So like going from like an analyst to a director, you're now responsible for corresponding with the department heads. I think learning a little bit about each functionality also helped. In terms of like understanding what the full job was. But not only that, but I feel like revenue management just had been a lot of fire drills.
And learning as you go. And just kind of like pivoting every single day because like, one day you can have, like, something like, airline had to, like, shut down, you know, their work or whatever. And like, everyone floods your hotels or what have you. So pretty early in, in my career, I learned that revenue management is bigger than pricing. And forecasting. And like, even as, like revenue manager is already evolving and like, you get boring, you know, involved at sales and you get more involved. The operations and the marketing teams because pizzas and marketing became so big. But with that through web, I think that's when you realize that everything is your responsibility. I think in revenue management, like has a hack and then the cookie jar, everyone's cookie jar.
So I think that's great. Yeah. Pretty much, I think that's when I think I've decided, okay, revenue management, you can't just just do pricing. You can't just price your rooms. You have to, like, look at the big picture of things. So that's pretty much when I start to zoom out a little bit and start to learn from other people outside of revenue management.
Calvin Tilokee Yeah, absolutely. There's a lot of, big picture thinking in revenue management. And if you don't possess that skill, not going to last very long. Hey, let me ask you something. If you're running a hotel and you know, social media matters, but you just don't have the time to figure it out. You're not alone. That's exactly why I built our media. We work with hotels to create marketing strategies that actually drive bookings, not just likes. From social media management to influencer campaigns to full creative production. We've been in the room, we've managed the revenue, and we know what moves the needle. If that's something you're looking to solve right now. Scan the QR code on screen or click the link in the show notes.
Now back to today's conversation. You've been in the industry, as it's changed as that model has changed from simply revenue management to commercial strategy. So you've you've been on both sides of this. How would you define commercial strategy today?
Dury Kim I think commercial strategy is pretty much anything that, you know, like I kind of mentioned before, just involving in other departments. Right. So you can't generate revenue or like have profitability or anything without knowing a little bit of everything. And I say this because like, revenue management as a whole has a lot of responsibilities to begin with. And I think that it was evolution from like reservation sales to like, revenue management. So, like having a background understanding of even sales is important. And then just like looping in, you know, what is it best. You know, practices for your property in terms of a top line perspective. So I, I kind of look at it for a top line generating team that that's pretty much holistic.
So commercial strategy to me means like almost everybody is involved and everyone is a revenue generator. And a revenue thinker. I think that that's pretty much the core essence of commercial strategy. So, like, not that everyone has like the same responsibility per se, but everybody has the same goal. So everyone's kind of aligned in what their vision for the what's best for your property or what's best for your portfolio looks like. Especially because like, if you just look at, you know, everyone's motives individually, as a department, we may have different objectives, right? So like historically, revenue management teams are just drive the top line. Right. And then sales teams were like, I got to make my incentives. Let's bring in all the groups. Right. Make the goals right. Operations and but balancing it.
Yeah. And then of course like everyone will be like okay I booked this group. Like now we have to pivot. Right. So without that connection, connection of like okay, this is our main goal and like a cohesive vision. There's no commercial strategy, right? So like I think that, you know, bringing everything together brings like more collaboration. And generally like more peacefulness to, no one's fighting. I think the biggest frustrations I always had, like when there's silos, is that everyone's frustrated at each other. They're like the ones that doesn't listen to me or like, this person just took this without telling me, or, like, you know what I mean? Like, there's a lot of fragmented pieces to, like, driving you strategy as a whole and even commercial strategy as a whole.
And then, of course, operations has their complaints too, right? Like, oh, so-and-so overbooked my property with this group or like whatever. Right? So there's there's always that, conversation behind like, well, if everyone's on the same page and everyone made a decision together and has the same goal, there's less frustration.
Calvin Tilokee So how does that look in in practical terms? So how would you how do you bridge that gap and make sure that everyone is on the same page?
Dury Kim Well, that's actually, an interesting topic that you bring up because that's something that I've been tasked with most recently with my, recent, like, promotions to like this commercial strategy to look holistically. You know, you have to build in the same kind of like layers. So I think like support number one is the most important is how do you build your bench and your support network? Because without it you really can't make any movement, in any direction. And that's secondly is like ensuring that the right people are talking to each other. And right people also then have a plan. And so I couldn't just make a decision for the rest of, the department heads or even the rest of the team without someone so knowing what their goals and initiatives are to.
Right. Like essentially everyone has to have some sort of alignment. It may look different for every individual, but the end goal matters. So if everybody knows what the end goal is or the end objective is, then that's kind of how we start to tie it. And I think bench number one, communication number two and number three is direction. So there has to be somebody who's like saying, okay, like this isn't working out on this person. And let's pivot to this. Now this aligns a little bit better with what our vision is or what our goals are. And it may not be perfect. In the beginning, 100% at a time. So like having flexibility I think is the next piece of the puzzle.
So that people conversion tools need to be flexible. Not everything goes your way. Unfortunately, we can't predict, the pandemics of the world. We can't predict the government shutdowns.
Calvin Tilokee If you could it be very rich person.
Dury Kim Right? So I'd probably be in politics. But, yeah, like, you can't predict those things happening, like, you know, limitation of travel or like, even wars. Right? So, like, those are the kind of things that, like, I think people need to have flexibility on is. Yes, it didn't work out this way, but this is our next step. So then just iterating processes to, to having the right people and processes. I think I remember seeing a quote in that in college at one point, but it is critical, like people are talking to each other. People have the same goal. People can pivot. I think that's the core essence of it is like giving people the autonomy to make those decisions, too.
And, you know, having them be their departments, but having one person above everything just saying, okay, like this is not working out. So like one arm is talking to another, let's bring let's bring it together again. Yeah.
Calvin Tilokee And you know, one thing that I had implemented when I was in the revenue management seat is, I mean, as you talk about, you know, communication is paramount, to everything. And things about overselling a hotel hits different when front desk knows why you're doing it. So, you know, we come up with, like, kind of like a daily news newsletter where we tell them this is the goal for today. As far as rooms sold, these are the rates we take for walk ins. If we're oversold and we need to walk, these are the hotels that we're reaching out to. And that mitigates a lot of that frustration of just being blindsided by wait world. So by ten rooms what are we going to do? I think it also reduces that feeling of this vision that outside of revenue management, has people outside of revenue.
Did that revenue manager this in the ivory tower calling shots, setting rates over selling hotels and you know getting paid.
Dury Kim And it also gives it only like power to say okay you can go like sell glass rooms within these means. And I think that's really critical because it's a plan. Right. So like you have a plan. Everybody agrees on the plan. That way everyone feels like they have that voice. Because I think that's a really interesting point where like, yes, a lot of the times, corporate employees and most of the time corporate employees are the revenue managers, right. Like, feel like they're just in their offices making these decision and putting a stamp on it versus, you know, having that conversation with the teams. And I think that's probably one of the more important things in life is just communication in general with any industry right outside of just hotel management, I think everybody just needs to communicate better.
Calvin Tilokee Yeah, that's just relationships in general. You know, there any relationships between relationships? Yeah, exactly, exactly. Your career began obviously as an intern. Looking back, what experiences helped most shape your leadership philosophy?
Dury Kim Well, I think what shaped me as a whole. I think I'll answer that. And before I get into a leadership philosophy, having great mentors to learn from. So you included, I wanted to be, like, a leader who everybody wanted to follow. Right. And I think you set a really great example for that. You you taught with kindness. You read with kindness. But you still were firm with people that you needed to be firm with. You protected your own. So even if I made a mistake, you would, you know, take my side and like, show me later on. Like, I think that's, the biggest leadership experience that I can, like, take away from is mentorship.
And then, what shaped my philosophy in leadership is also giving back, right? So, like, not only do I learn and grow from people like you and like some other mentors that I've had in my career, but it's like, how can I shape other people to get the same way? And I think that, you know, my leadership philosophy as a whole is just, you know, be kind, and be understanding, but also try to be a boss that I want to work for and that I have worked for. So, like, you know, mirroring the relationships that I've had in the past, what I enjoyed, you know, conversation wise, like I think the, the biggest thing, I always take away and actually always is to tell, like my analysts and my interns, etc., is I had a boss, and it was really you. Please always go.
Hey, do you have a minute? Come into my room, like, and show me things. Right. And I think that hoarding knowledge is, like, a detriment to yourself and even the individual that you're training. Right? So, like, giving back is my leadership philosophy. So, like, even now, to this day, I love giving back to students here. So like, kids in college help mentor them and train them. And we do the like, intercollegiate conference at each summer in New York. And I would always volunteer for it, because I think that there's value in giving back to like, giving young people and like showing them the excitement of hospitality and hotels and like, even in revenue manager or commercial strategy, there's just so much to learn.
And I think that's the core essence of my leadership philosophy. And what shaped it most is probably mentorship with people mentoring me. And me mentoring others. So I give you a nice shout out for that one.
Calvin Tilokee Thank you very much. Thank you, thank you. Well, it was always a joy working with you. I know you talked about this another podcast, so I'll tell the story for you. When I was this was actually my first director role at the Renaissance, Westchester. And that was, after some a rough patch in my career. The previous year, I had been laid off three times in one calendar year, position elimination twice, then just a straight layoff after that. So it was rough. And then I got a job at the Crown Plaza, Times Square, where you interned for me. And, a shortly thereafter, I was offered the position, f of a director at the Renaissance Westchester. And I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that sometimes it you hit a point in your career, you're like, this is it.
This has to work.
Dury Kim Yeah.
Calvin Tilokee If I don't make this work, I'm toast. Like this. Yeah, this. This is it. And, so it was crucial that that I succeeded there. And, obviously, I chose you to be my right hand and go. Yeah, you know, be the person that that supported me there and ensure that we would be successful. And you commuted three hours one way. Yeah, every day to do that. And I know a lot of people, sitting here listening like, what are your commuting? Six hours a day?
Dury Kim I don't think anyone in this, like, generation or like, the upcoming generation would have done the same. But it is worth it, guys. This is how badly I wanted to be in revenue management. And how is a testament to like, you know, also, your mentorship too is like, I knew that you'd be a great boss to learn from. And also like grow career with. So it's worth it.
Calvin Tilokee Yeah, yeah. You know, so, sometimes it just get a good fit and, you know, a good fit for everyone. But you know, being able to to put in that effort. And it's something that, you know, before all of this happened, I was commuting to, to Brooklyn, from Westchester, from White Plains every day. No, wasn't three hours, but maybe about two hours, one way. So from a train to another train to a walk and back, you know, late nights, you know, doing budgets and stuff like that. But if you've got to put in the grind, it might look a little different for, you know, this next generation or wherever you guys are. Right now. But, at some point and I'll just say it as my podcast, some point you're gonna have to eat shit and, you know, it's unavoidable and you just have to do it.
And, you know, make sure you're doing it for the right purpose and, you know, know where that's going to go. But you got to do it. And, you know, Derry did it. And, one thing I've always said before, you know, before we move on to the next point is I've always trained and mentored people. And I think I said this to you many times, I'm training you, like, as if I'm going to work for you one day. And you're an SVP? I'm not, I never work. So if I ever wanted a job, I'd be working.
Dury Kim For you everyday instead, which I can always see you doing.
Calvin Tilokee But I went down a different lane. But, you know, if this. If this celebrity thing doesn't work out, I need a I need a job in hotels again. Guess who I'd be working for?
Dury Kim Yeah. I mean, I will say that that is probably critical. Like me be like, you train people so that you know they can take over your role one day to, And I think that's a real testament to what true leadership looks like. It's like you're not hoarding your talent. You're not hoarding your knowledge. And I think that's also why I think so. So I feel very grateful and very lucky that I've had really great mentors right in my career to help me along my journey. I mean, but you're right where, like, there are some times you go through a slump, and you're just going to have to, like, work through it. Right. And, and, then other times, like, it is worthwhile.
Like, I stuck around, I think to, I don't know, I did that three hour commute for a couple of directors after you two.
Calvin Tilokee Oh, really?
Dury Kim Yeah. So, like, I think, you know, maybe two and a half years, but, like, it was worth it. Like, you think at the time I got, I'm never going to get out of this or like or it feels like forever when you're young. But like, when looking back at it, I was like, that was worth it. It was worth learning. It was worth the journey. And, like, I don't think I would've been here today if I didn't make that, you know, sacrifice of time, right? Like, time is always, like, important, but, like, again, like, the right way to spend it. Yeah.
Calvin Tilokee And, you know, I can say with, with confidence that that puts you in a good light with, with the company we worked for. I know a lot of the leadership because I was progressing. They would ask me, hey, you know, who's the next person or who was your analyst there? And I would always tell that story and people were blown away. I mean, it shows a level of commitment of of desire. It gets you noticed in the right way.
Dury Kim Yeah. It's great, I should say. Right. Right.
Calvin Tilokee Yeah. And it shows that you could handle what comes with being an overall leader. You know, because there's there's a lot of stuff. You got to be.
Dury Kim A team player too, right? Just right. You know, like, I think I always look back on, I like I wouldn't trade a day of that, to be quite honest, with you, I learned so much, especially in that larger office. So there was a lot sellers, you know, like, you learn so much from the people that you spend your time with, especially early in your career. And I think that, really set me up for success. So I don't regret it. I think that if you have that opportunity, maybe it's not a three hour commute, but like, you know, it doesn't look ideal because something you really want to do it, like make the jump and make the leap, you never know how your life will change.
Because if you told me, then I'd be an SVP of commercial. Now, I'd probably be like, yeah, right.
Calvin Tilokee I think in those days to be like, what's commercial?
Dury Kim What is commercial?
Calvin Tilokee What? I'm not an actress. What if I'm not doing commercials? What are we talking about?
Dury Kim Advertising. What's happening?
Calvin Tilokee So as we you know, obviously fast forward to today with you being SVP of commercial, also the recipient of the 2025 HSN, my New York City Revenue and Distribution Executive of the year. How does that feel?
Dury Kim I'm very honored. There's probably a lot of people who were nominated for that, really accolade and award. I feel very special. It feels like a really big year for me because my promotion and the, the award came at the same quarter. It's just same. It feels awesome to be recognized. I also think that everybody who was nominated is just as, you know, deserving of it because we all work very, very hard, especially in revenue and distribution and even like commercial strategy, everyone puts in their time. There are days where you're working to 11, and I can attest to that. So I think I'm humbled that I was recognized for it, and I think everyone is deserving of it, especially if you put in the time of it. But additional special I think I can I can feel a little special for it. You screw screwed.
Yeah.
Calvin Tilokee Okay. You heard it. Yeah.
Dury Kim Quite honestly, I feel like, it's not just mine alone. Right? Like, I do feel like there are people who help support my role. Like, I gave my analyst a shout out because, he was also nominated for Rising Star of the year for the same, so of Frank Bergman awards. When he puts in the time and effort to help me look really amazing, so does like my entire team. I regional's like everybody makes me look good. All right, so it's not just mine alone. Just let everyone know that, like, it's yours. Yours too. But yeah, I do feel good about it. I feel, you know, great to be recognized. And then, of course, like, just the org itself is like an amazing work to, you know, bring people together in hospitality and tourism too, right?
Because there is now the New York tourism boards in park, they don't call it that anymore. But like the New York tourism and conventions, I think they change your name and they will. They for now, but they're part of it too. Like it's all like, you know, you know, Square Hospitality Group was also like special shout out so felt really good with amongst big names and really important people. Right.
Calvin Tilokee Yeah. Well you deserve it. You deserve all of it. I was very proud to see that, on, on LinkedIn. Very proud to see all your all your accolades and all your growth. You deserve all of it.
Dury Kim Like you watch you grow up from intern I exactly.
Calvin Tilokee I was there at the beginning and I've watched this whole process. It makes me very proud.
Dury Kim Like I said, it's everyone's it's everyone's award. But I do feel very special for like, getting the recognition. And it's a prestigious one.
Calvin Tilokee That's kind of like, like that line from Fridays, you know, just like both hours. But but just keep it down in my house.
Dury Kim Yeah. You know, I'm. Try to show some humility here.
Calvin Tilokee If you guys want to come visit it, you can come visit. But I would keep it on my mantle for now. Now that you guys know you're getting award winning advice here, we're going to let's leave the audience with a couple key points. In your opinion, what would separate a top performing commercial organization from an average one?
Dury Kim Oh, that's a really good one. I think openness, open mindedness. Obviously commercial orgs hire very smart people. Right. Very smart people who have a lot of conviction. But being able to listen and say this because listen to understand and not listen to respond, I think is very important. Like, just to understand why the person saying what they are saying or like, what is the why behind everything. I think being curious is also important. Right? So like digging into things and that's like the revenue mind, right? You're curious about why this comes at this rate or like you're investigating every little thing, but also like just talking to each other. Race. And now commercial orgs are multiple departments, interacting with each other on a daily basis.
But like that's why the listening part is important because the next level of it is like communication, right? But like, listen to understand, why is this person telling me this? Why is this person bringing this up to me? Right. Because oftentimes we see very smart people just brush each other off and talk over each other. Oh, right. Right. Happens a lot. Oh, yeah. Yeah. There you go. And becomes an argument and then becomes a point of friction. Right. So like just being able to understand each other and where we're coming from in the background, especially when it comes to like generating revenues or top buy strategies like everyone's going to have an opinion. It doesn't mean that everyone is correct.
But like understanding the the why behind their thought process is super critical because then you can't move on from it. Everyone's just gonna get stuck and be in their silos again, right? Like, you don't want to encourage those silos. You want to encourage conversations that happen in the background. If you think about it, everyone, if I could say like the best commercial, teams have the smartest people, but it's not necessarily true. It's the smartest people who are the most flexible, who can listen and communicate in the best and most effective way, and then also being able to defend your strategic position. Right. Like, yeah, that's so critical in any job. But like if someone's poking holes in your strategy, you should be able to defend yourself and your challenges in it in a polite and professional way.
Calvin Tilokee Yeah, that is key. Yeah. I mean, I've always said that if you can explain your strategy, you don't have one. Yes. I mean, I've had plenty of those conversations in, in the revenue world and even now even doing marketing where we're talking about we could be talking about an influencer partnership, right, or why we should post certain kinds of content or what what voice are we trying to speak in for this hotel? And sometimes you'll just get well, yeah, I understand why we're doing this, but I don't I don't like it or let's just do it this way. And it's like, well, that's not a strategy. Yeah, that's that's a feeling. That's an opinion. And we all have those. But if we can back this up with something tangible like reach impressions, engagement, growth then which just.
Dury Kim Or suggests an alternative, right? Like if you really, truly believe that it's not the right strategy, then you should have an indication or an idea that a different or alternate strategy would work. I mean, listening to people as they say, okay, this is what our plan is because we want x, Y, and z. It's also a disconnect in the plan. Maybe that one person is not on board with the same plan then, right? Like if the goal was to reach an audience, and you're Pooh poohing that, you know, strategy says strategy, then perhaps you have an alternate one to suggest.
Calvin Tilokee That would be great. Yeah, exactly. Okay, let's not do this. But what should we do? Yeah, okay.
Dury Kim I think what you think is the best done, right. Like, let's just say no without, like, offering an alternative. Because a strategy must be made regardless. A decision must be made. Just be based off of one person's. I don't like it.
Calvin Tilokee Right. Yeah. That's that's that's a useless way. If we're talking business, you know, if we're talking about buying clothes. Sure. You don't like you don't like it, you know, but if we if we're running a business, we're running a marketing strategy or running a revenue or commercial strategy, you're ones like it might not. It's not good enough, you know, and another thing that I've always lived by in my career is you don't don't bring a problem to your boss without having a solution 100%. Yeah. Nobody wants that. Nobody. Oh, well, this doesn't work. Great. What should we do, then? Because I don't need you to just point out issues and walk away.
Dury Kim And we're not the charging generation, right? Like we're not, like, prompting you for to tell me what you think I can fix. That's like, come up, come with a solution or what you think can help fix it is at that point, you're just like dumping an issue on someone else's plate to figure out. And that's also unfair to the individual who's receiving that, right?
Calvin Tilokee Yeah, exactly. All right. And then back to the career growth piece. This is your final question here to impart some knowledge, some more award winning knowledge on on the youth of hospitality. What advice would you give future hospitality leaders who want to move into executive commercial roles?
Dury Kim It's a lot of politicking. I'm not going to lie. Being in front of the right people, and pressing on the right people, also ensuring that you're continuously growing as well and that you have a strong enough voice to earn that seat at the table. Doesn't mean like, complain all the time, right? But like it does mean that you go above and beyond what your normal duties are. I think keeping that over for.
Calvin Tilokee The job you want.
Dury Kim Right? It's like you can't say that's not my job as an executive, right? You say, okay, how can I help, right? Or what can I do to make this person's life a little bit easier? Because at the end of the day, the whole company as a whole has an agenda, right? You as a leader do not fit into that agenda. Then it's harder for you to get through that, like ceiling of executive or like corporate role, senior leadership level. I think that's also like one of the things I want to impart is a lot of politicking because you have to, you know, you're good and you know you can do the job, but you have to finagle your way into it by doing a little bit above and beyond and being in front of the right people saying, you know, helping and imparting knowledge in the right places.
Calvin Tilokee Yeah, but it's not just important that, you know, you can do the job. The people who are hiring, you need to know that you can do the job.
Dury Kim Yeah, it may look different for everybody. It may not be tomorrow, and it may come in like a year or two. But like nurturing the relationship. And also having like, that open mind of like perhaps we need to learn a little bit more of X, Y and Z to move up in my career. So like understanding what your, you know, opportunities are to so like a little bit of politicking, a little bit of further learning, a little bit of, going above and beyond.
Calvin Tilokee Yeah, absolutely. You know, one thing I do remember, you know, sometimes it's as simple as going to the happy hours, right? Because your, your bosses are going to be present.
Dury Kim Yeah. Just be.
Calvin Tilokee Present. Right. I think people put a lot of negative connotation on, on that. Because some people take it too far, right? They're, they're brown nosing and everybody can see through that. But that's not what we're talking about. It's just you want to be good and effective at your job. But a lot of people are. It's a competitive industry out there. People want to work with people that they know and people that they like. Yeah. And if you're if you're present at the events and the things that are going on with your, your senior leaders, they will recognize you. You have to be top of mind. It's very similar to it is marketing. Actually not even similar to it is marketing.
Dury Kim Brand.
Calvin Tilokee Marketing yourself? Yeah. And you need to be visible. It's the same reason people slap. Are you watching a B finals and you'll see. Advertisement around the court. This because they're being visible, you know, the next time you're thirsty, maybe I should grab a Pepsi. I think I saw that somewhere recently. You know, that's it's the same mindset and it's the same tactic of just being visible around the people who are making decisions.
Dury Kim Like, if you're a remote employee, you go show your face in the office when the important people are out, right? Like, yeah, it's a small little things has it is a people forward business, right. Like and quite honestly, most leadership teams are a lot more people facing or like human facing than you would think. I know, like a lot of people are like going to hate that I see this. I'm not saying like going to the office all the time, right? But showing up when it matters. I think that's a one of the good advice I can give is like being in front of the right people at the right.
Calvin Tilokee Time, just like revenue management put in the right in front of the right person at the right time, you.
Dury Kim Know, apply it or yourself.
Calvin Tilokee Exactly. Very good. Well, now, because this is this socially awkward podcast, there's a final question that I didn't prepare you for. What is your most awkward work or travel moment?
Dury Kim I think I'm like just an awkward human in general. So like, everything feels awkward for me. My most awkward moment was when I received the award because like, yeah, because they don't tell you that you're going to winner until you're there in person. And no one told me that I had to prepare a speech or like a speech. And everybody was up there with their long speeches, and I was up there to like admittedly, I did not preparing, saying. So I'm in Mississippi or, right. I'm pretty lighthearted and very, very short. And obviously I miss a bunch of people that I wanted to thank. And. Right, right. It's really awkward for me because I was like, I'm a great speaker when I'm prepared, right?
Right. I was like, but at that moment I feel a little awkward. And I have a there's like awkward laughs. So like, I get goals and stuff. I felt.
Calvin Tilokee Right.
Dury Kim When I feel unprepared, I feel awkward for sure. But when it comes to like, travel, I've definitely traveled without, toothbrush and toothpaste before. And I was like, going to an important summit for one of our owners. I had to ask my spanking new, digital marketing director. Can you pick up some toothpaste sent to me? Two pairs for me at the supermarket. She probably thought I was insane. I mean, her and I have a good relationship now, but like, she probably saying just like, oh my God, is she one of those bosses? It makes me go on these weird runs.
Dury Kim That was a little awkward for me because I had to ask, and, you know, but I still don't drive. So. Okay, that is also the reason why I asked. Because we were, like, in the middle of nowhere.
Calvin Tilokee Well, this has been a pleasure. Pleasure catching up. It's fine. It's been a while since we've. I'm not sure we've ever done. Done this. Done a formal podcast, together. But, it's always great catching up with you again. Very proud of everything. You're you've done. You continue to do what you will do. Yeah. Really awesome to see. And, for the audience, we will see you next time.
