Why Your Guest Experience Falls Flat After Millions in Marketing ft. Calvin Stovall
Calvin Stovall calls it a Milli Vanilli experience
You're not seeing double on this one. My guest was Calvin Stovall, chief experience officer at Iconic Presentations and author of Hidden Hospitality, which was nominated for an NAACP Image Award. He started as a desk clerk at a Holiday Inn in downtown Chicago and later became vice president of brand marketing for Homewood Suites by Hilton, back when the brand had maybe 35 or 40 hotels.
A boss who let the team get it wrong
Homewood did great on weekdays because it was an extended stay hotel, so the push was to fill the weekends. His boss, Jim, wanted ideas that stood out, so they ran partnerships with movies and family promotions, and even one with Blockbuster. Not everything worked, and Jim didn't beat anyone up over it. He'd say, "Hey, what's next?"
Calvin doesn't see that level of creativity now. In his words, "You can't tell the hotel brand from another really, in most cases." This is the line he gives in his keynotes:
- "Everything else is just a ticket to the ballgame. Your rooms can be copied, the furniture you put in there can be copied. All of those things, but you can't copy the people in there."
The casino that felt like an airport
I told Calvin about a hotel in Las Vegas I won't name. I was there for a conference on the strip, and they bussed us about 20 minutes off it to this property that had done tons of marketing about itself. The best way I can describe it is if an airline terminal and a Waldorf-Astoria had a baby, and that baby was a casino. I've been in this business 20 plus years and I'd never walked into a hotel and felt nothing.
Calvin had a name for it. "They spent all that money getting you there through their marketing, and the experience is totally opposite what you thought it was going to be. I call that a Milli Vanilli experience." For him the worst thing you can do to a guest is set an expectation and then let them down. That guest is never coming back, and they'll probably tell people not to go.
Anyone could post the coffee cup
You've seen the luxury hotel post. A coffee cup on a coaster on a nice wood table and somebody's hand grabbing it, with a caption that basically says "we are cool." Calvin's test was simple: "if I took that brand off of there, I could slap another brand on there. And you would never know."
I see a related problem with hotels that don't want to post their rooms. Guests will find those pictures on TripAdvisor or Google anyway, and if they book there, now you owe 20%. Pick your best looking room and show it.
Calvin's fix is to tell stories about your employees and your guests, and to ask your team for ideas. He likes morning huddles, and meetings where leaders tell the team which way the guest service scores are going, and he likes leaders who ask the people in front of guests every day what would help the hotel stand out. "You'd be surprised the answers you will receive."
A monograph in a box
Hidden Hospitality started as Calvin's monograph at Cornell, about 100 pages on black hotel ownership. Almost 30 years later he found it while cleaning out some boxes, and a friend read it and asked, "is this a book?" He went with a hybrid publisher, which meant raising $75,000 to get 3,000 copies printed. His two sons watched him type night after night for years, and when the first print arrived he handed it to them and said, "don't ever say you can't finish anything."
One story he tells is Joseph Lee's. Lee had two hotels, the Woodland Park Hotel and the Abbotsford, and lost them both. He came back with a restaurant and then a catering business in Quincy, Massachusetts. For the catering business he got a patent for a bread kneading machine. That made too much bread, so he patented a bread crumb making machine and used the crumbs to coat his fish and chicken. He sold the rights, and those machines ended up in hotels across the nation.
We go through all of this in the full episode. Watch on YouTube or listen on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
Calvin and the Revpar Media team build hotel marketing that drives bookings, from social media management to influencer campaigns.
Book a 30-minute callFull transcript
They spent all that money getting you there through their marketing, and the experience is totally opposite what you thought it was going to be. I call that a mili Vanilli experience. That's Calvin Stovall, chief experience officer at Iconic Presentations. He wrote Hidden Hospitality, which was nominated for an NAACP Image Award. He knows how to stop wasting acquisition dollars when the experience contradicts the marketing. Your people are the ones that are going to make that experience memorable, which is true. Everything else is just the ticket to the ballgame. Your rooms can be copied, the furniture you put in there can be copied. All of those things, but you can't copy the people in there.
He reveals how hospitality leaders waste acquisition dollars and how they treat brand promises as separate from employee engagement. In this episode, you'll learn why pouring money into marketing waste dollars without frontline engagement. How homogenous hospitality leaves guests unable to tell one brand from another, and why your team, not your rooms, is the only true differentiator that earns word of mouth. I'm Calvin Tilokee and this is socially awkward. Hello and welcome to the Socially Awkward podcast. I am your host, Calvin Tilokee and you are not seeing double. There is another Calvin on the show this evening. I have only met a handful of Calvin's in my life, and this gentleman happens to be one of them, so please welcome Mr. Calvin Stovall, chief experience officer at Iconic Presentations.
Okay. Thank you. All right. Thank you. Calvin I appreciate you having me on. Thank you. Absolutely, man. It's always a pleasure. Yes. For the audience. Calvin and I met, well, got connected. I don't think we've we don't think we've. I don't think we've actually met in person. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we are that person. Yeah. Right. That's, you know, this is testament to this. This new world we live in. Yeah, yeah, but we can change that. We gotta change. Yes. For sure, for sure. Yeah. You know, we have a relationship now for a few years, I think, I believe it started with the International Hospitality Institute Awards when they start awarding people. Yes. And, yeah, we became aware of each other that way. And but instead of me, like me doing a disservice to, to, you know, who you are and everything that you do, give the audience a bit of a background of yourself.
And what what is icon of presentations? Thank you for having me. In a nutshell, I am. I am a hospitality guy through and through. I've been in it for probably some form of hospitality for 25 something years or so. I started as a desk clerk at a Holiday Inn in downtown Chicago, which is my hometown. And, you know, worked in some various hotels there. And, I went to undergrad at Chicago State and, eventually ended up going to graduate school at Cornell Hotel School in Ithaca. And, probably after that, my whole career trajectory changed in hospitality. Point on, I ended up moving to, Memphis, Tennessee to serve as a, as a AGM at an Embassy Suites in Memphis and then transitioned work there a couple of years.
You transitioned into corporate. I worked in brand research and then eventually became vice president of brand marketing for homeless Suites by Hilton. But it was, I was in the early days when when Homewood was very small at that time, maybe 35, 40 hotels. So sales. Oh, there was, but it was great. It was probably one of the most exciting times for me, in hospitality, because I had a very, innovative boss and Jim Holt Hauser, who, was a great leader and always was open to having us try new ideas and new things. And so that was a great time for me. So I loved it. And so I did that for a while. And then eventually, I moved to, Minneapolis for a while, and then I was doing my own thing for and then 2009 hit. And so I came back to Memphis again to work for Hilton again. And they were they were going through a restructuring at the time with, I think Blackstone had purchased.
So I transitioned again and ended up working at Saint Jude Children's Research Hospital in their, brand marketing. Al Sack is the name of that part of that organization, and that it was a great experience as well. And then, spent some, a couple of years in another nonprofit called the SOS Bill Foundation, which is a, which was built up out of the Stax Records recording studio from the famous 70s. But now it's the Stax Museum of American soul Music. They also have a charter school on their campus, as well as an after school music program. So I did that a couple of years. So and then, ended up here in so I'm in I'm in Mooresville right now. North Carolina, I've been here for almost ten years now.
I can't believe in how fast this happened. And, so here raising my two boys, I have two teenagers, 16 and 18. And so my company, Iconic Presentations. I've been doing this for probably about close to the same amount of years, and I specialize in delivering dynamic keynote presentations on customer experience and leadership. I've been doing it for a while, I love it, I love inspiring people, getting people charged up and excited about their roles and so forth. And, it's been great, man. I actually this has been a great year already. I did my first international keynote in Dublin, Ireland. Nice month, for a company called Forest Software, and they specialize in providing software for, salons and spas for their management system. Yeah. So, it was probably about 650 or so in attendance at that conference.
One of the most energetic conferences I've ever spoke for. But it was absolutely phenomenal experience. So I speak for mostly, hospitality companies, but, also healthcare real estate management companies and obviously some like organization companies because, you know, customer experience and leadership transcends any industry. So you got to have it a little bit. And, and my particular focus in my keynotes. So probably around more around employee experience because I'm really about you can't have a positive customer experience without a positive employee experience first. So I really hammer that on a lot. When I do my keynotes about employee engagement and how that drives the customer's experience, when they come to your establishment. So that's me in a nutshell.
I've got the, the book, which I was super excited about, and which came out last October, is titled Hidden Hospitality Untold Story of Black Hotels, motels and Resorts. From the pioneer days to the civil rights era. Got nominated for an NAACP Image Award. Didn't didn't take the Covenant Award, but nonetheless, I'm truly blessed to have been nominated. So it's just it's just been a great year so far, Calvin. I can't I can't get all of that. And I know that's. Going on and on, but I want to say get it all. Out. That's a no no worries here, man. I was I was just sitting here in awe of and everything you've accomplished so far. Just, just this year and, you know, it's it's it's always good to hear somebody speak with passion about what they do. You know, Uganda, what people are excited about what they do, man.
So, yeah, I'm just I was like, one of your audience members in Dublin this evening is soaking it all. In, you know. Yeah. But, you know, I didn't do it alone. You know, I just, you know, all of this stuff that's happened in my life, particularly all of my growth in hospitality, I have people that help me out, you know? So I've been blessed to have good people in my corner and help and support me and and encouraging me and keeping me going. So for all of you out there, let's listen in and help me. Hey, thank you. Absolutely. Yeah. That that is important man. Again. That's. Yeah. That's that's that's one thing I would say. Nobody does it alone, man. It alone is right. For sure. So. Yeah. So I want to get kind of get into something that you mentioned in your, your intro there. You know, you talked about a, a previous, previous leader that you work with who thought outside the box and that, that really stuck with me because I think a big thing with hospitality in general, but specifically in the world we're in with marketing.
Thinking outside the box doesn't happen often. So tell us a little bit about, what that experience was like in, how you how do you see hospitality being able to make, make further strides in that department? Oh, man. That's a that's a great question, Calvin. I, I, I was I was fortunate to have a guy that was my leader, particularly in my first corporate role like that. Because Homewood Suites was so new. And at the time, I mean, we were like David and resident Sam was the Goliath at the time. I mean, they were they were everywhere.
And so we had a we had a great product, but we didn't have the distribution and the awareness. Right. So, so basically, in a nutshell, Jim, who was who was my manager, he was like, look, we know we have a great product and we know eventually more people will will, will come in here to see it. However, we got it, we got to do some stuff that's a little bit different. And so he was very keen on bringing ideas to him to kind of help us stand out. We did partnerships with with movies and some other stuff that, helped us, you know, because what we really focused on, we did great because it was an extended stay hotel. We did great in the weekdays, but it was the weekends where we really wanted to focus to increase occupancy.
So we get partnerships with movies, families, we bring a family promotions and all of that stuff in. And, we did partnerships for now. They're not here anymore, but like blockbuster and some other organizations. But it helped us stand out because nobody else was doing it. It was just a cool time for for me, you know, and everything we did didn't work. I mean, but what I liked about him is he allowed us to make mistakes, and he didn't beat you up about it. He's like, well, I didn't turn out the way we thought it would. Hey, what's next? What are we going to do next? Yeah, and that kept the team. You know, we had a small team. It was only mean and that it was, brand manager that worked with me.
We had an executive assistant then it was Jim. And somebody doing sales, and we didn't have a big team. Right? We had to be very, very, creative and, and and do things in efficient, you know, efficient as possible. But I loved it. It was probably, like I said, one of the best times for me and hospitality, because he welcomed the creativity. He didn't want to be like everybody else, you know, he was he knew we had the customer service delivery. People were friendly there. We had great owners and all of that. But he still was like, we got to be creative. Even the logo, you know, the our logo was a it was a duck. And we did something with the duck man.
I mean, we were we were all over him. It was just it was just a great time. And so, I think like today, today. Calvin, I got to be honest with you, I don't see that kind of level of creativity. Like, it's everything is pretty homogenous, you know? You can't tell the hotel brand from another really, in most cases. And I do always when I do my keynotes, I tell people, you know, your people are the ones that are going to make that experience memorable, which is true. Everything else is just a ticket to the ballgame. Your rooms can be copied, the furniture you put in there can be copied. All of those things, but you can't copy the people in there.
So if you really get, you get the right team, the right staff, that really care and and truly can deliver that memorable experience. You're going to you're going to stand out. But now, today, you don't even get that, everybody's pretty like, it's this. It's, you know, I don't know what happened after Covid, but it feels like we were things just shifted. Well, I think and I don't want to generalize all hotels. Of course, there are some out there that's still in fantastic works. I don't want to be misquoted or anything, but I feel like now that I is the shiny new object, I think people are still trying to figure that out. And I believe there's efficiencies and you can save money.
You can do all those things with AI. But I think sometimes people go too far with and you forget the human part of the experience. You still need that. And so you can't, can't you can't go too far with the technology. I think it can help, you know, free up your team to be more customer focused and engage with guests. But if you if you go too far and you lose the soul, you know, your property, the little soul, man, the soul is everything. Exactly. You know, you just said a lot. And there's so many different ways we can go with this. But that. I'll take that last point. Yeah. I don't want to. I don't want to say the name of the hotel because it's not about disparaging anyone. Property. All right? Right. You know, I'm plus. Hey, you know where where the.
They'll bar the family. You know, I don't want to hurt anybody that's working at the hotel, but there's a. Well, it's it's in Las Vegas. And, I got to say, it's the small, soulless hotel I've ever been to. And Las Vegas is not necessarily known for that type of hospitality. It's not like a hands on warm and fuzzy. It's a this is a giant place with everything you want to do in life. Go do it. Yeah, but they they all have an identity. They all have some sort of soul. Something that makes you feel like staying in the building. We went to this one particular property that had done tons of marketing about itself, and I'm walking through this place and I'm like, the best way I could describe it is if an airline terminal and a Waldorf-Astoria had a baby, that baby was a casino.
It's just yeah. Massive, massive ceiling. I mean, way up there. And it's all white, so it's sterile. It feels like you're maybe you're in an airline terminal in a mall. It's just huge and cavernous and no sort of warm feeling in there. And then when they try to go somewhere with the, the artwork, they try to put some high end stores in there. But it's again, it just doesn't fit. And right, there's nobody there. It's, It's horrible. Yeah. It was just a weird feeling. And I, I've been in this business 20 plus years. I have never walked into a hotel and felt that it. Which was nothing, you know what I mean? You go to any of your economy brands in any kind of brand, you feel something, you know, you know what to expect.
You take your most run of the mill plain white cracker Marriott. Night. And but it's going to be a grab and go. There's kind of a front desk, you know what I mean? Right, right. Oh where things are going to be and you know what's going to be there. This hotel was just. Soulless, soulless. And I was like, man, it's it's hard to think. It's hard to create something like that in this. Yeah. But you know, something else that you talked about I want to get more into, being this, you know, this being a marketing podcast. You know, you talked about a lot of what we see today being kind of repetitive, being unable to, differentiate one brand from another, from another.
And it's something that we run into at my agency working with a bunch of different types of properties. But we, I see it particularly with the higher end hotels, the hotels that consider themselves luxury, your lifestyle, they continuously want to do the same post over and over and over again. And you probably could. You probably already know the post, but for those out there, I'll let you know. And as you scroll Instagram, you tell me if you've seen this, how or how many times you've seen it. It's a picture of a coffee cup on a nice wood table with a coaster. Somebody's hand is grabbing it and the caption says something like, we are cool. And it's like, okay. Then you may see a picture of a shadowy lobby with some flowers in the background, or with a silhouette of a person walking by.
And you know, we are cool again. And it's like, cool. But what is this doing for the person who sees it? Right? And if if I, if I took, I take I know you don't, but I did. And if I took that brand off of there, I could slap another brand on there. And you would never know that that is the most uncreative piece of work you can do is going to remember that. Hey, let me ask you something. If you're running a hotel and, you know, social media matters, but you just don't have the time to figure it out. You're not alone. That's exactly why I built RAF Palmer Media. We work with hotels to create marketing strategies that actually drive bookings, not just likes. From social media management to influencer campaigns to full creative production.
We've been in the room, we've managed the revenue, and we know what moves the needle. If that's something you're looking to solve right now, scan the QR code on screen or click the link in the show notes. Now back to today's conversation. Going back to that Las Vegas situation you talked about. You said they had done a great job marketing this place. So you came in there Calvin, with the expectation. Yeah. Right. I was I was I was curious to see it because I was there for, for a conference. The conference was on the, on the main strip. So this hotel is off the main strip. They had two busses over about a 20 minute drive and again from, just a, you know, I guess, leadership, marketing, common sense standpoint, if you're 20 minutes off the strip, you need to do something to attract people right out of that space.
Right? You're going to have to be more competitive in your in your pricing, your marketing and what you're offering. Right. So something that the draw people there. Job people there. Yep. So if if we're being bused 20 minutes off the strip where everybody wants to be and I walk into a hotel that has no soul, no feel, no what why would anybody do that? You're never coming back. Nope. No. No, you're never coming back. And you're going to probably tell people don't go there if you go to Las Vegas. Yeah. And so the sad thing about that is they spent all that money getting you there through their marketing. And the experience is totally opposite what you thought it was going to be. Yeah, that's I call that a milli Vanilli experience.
Yeah, yeah. Because the Vanilli could sing. He found out they couldn't. And so, it. Well, they didn't make that record anyway. But but the thing is, that is the worst that you can do to a guest or customer is to create and paint a picture. Yeah. To set an expectation and then let them down. That is, that is that is horrible. Yeah. And it's funny. You know, I think it goes back to something I talk about a lot in what we do is we need you have to be authentic. Yes. The authenticity is is paramount to making your marketing work. I've had I've had clients, you know, who feel that their rooms aren't the nicest or whatever, like, hey, why don't we just not post pictures of our rooms?
Why? So you want to lie to your audience, right? Right. You know what I mean? It's it's like because people, when they're shopping for them, they're going to find those pictures somewhere. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So wouldn't you. Rather control that narrative? Wouldn't you rather show them what the rooms look like? Of course. You're not picking your room that's got the toilet. Not working or. Right. Right. I mean, pick your best looking room, but you don't. It doesn't need to be the Ritz-Carlton. It doesn't need to be, you know, six senses. Although most people don't stay at those type of hotels.
But let's be real. Most people are staying at a hotel that looks exactly like yours, right? And that really concern that you don't think it's the prettiest thing out there, right? But they are concerned that it's not dilapidated. So if you if you're not posting pictures on your social media about what your hotel looks like, guess what? They're going to go to TripAdvisor and find those pictures yesterday on Google and find those pictures. And then what are they going to do. They'll book there. And now you owe 20%, you know. Yeah. Exactly. When they could have found that on your Instagram. Right. And saved you all that money and trouble. Absolutely.
No I see stuff all the time. But I just hope that, like I said, in an, I can say anonymous pages, it's it's the people are going to be the last night. You can't have a raggedy hotel. I mean, you just it's got to be, like you said, up to at least a certain standard and, you know, be be be decent enough for people want to sleep in there. But beyond that, all that other stuff, the little things that you might put in there, that's cool to man. But if you can have the most beautiful place to. But if you people suck, it's not going to make any difference in the world. So I, I just believe that it's almost like a balance thing. You got to take care of your people.
You got to take care of your property, too. But man, people is. Look, they're the one. They're the differentiators. Because I've been in some hotels that aren't that didn't look that great, but the people were like five star. And they made you feel great. They recognized you when they saw you. It was just wonderful. And you know, and then you leave and you're like, man I go back, go back. They want the greatest property. But right. You are wonderful. And so that makes it makes a big difference you know. But I've also been in like I said, the big beautiful places. You know, I've been a lot of those Calvin where they and the people just don't. It just happened. I went to a restaurant this weekend. The place itself was gorgeous.
People were horrible. Everybody was complaining about staff behind the. It was a bar kind of bistro type situation. It's horrible. Just horrible. Yeah. You know what I like in those those hotels too, is those people that peak the night school like your your prom king or queen or the jobs of the cheerleaders. Right. They didn't have to develop a personality because they would just happen right? Yeah. Everybody here, they were hot. Everybody wanted to be around them. Everybody wanted to get with them or be around them, right?
Or whatever. And then, you know, you fast forward five, ten years after high school and it's like, wait a second, you're not very bright, not very warm or funny. There's nothing drawing me to you, but there's no personality here, you know, and I I've worked at hotels like that. I'm sure you you've have experiences as well. And that's, that's kind of one of the things that's driven me to do. What I do is because you can't get by on that anymore. But, you know, maybe in the early 2000s where. And that's why I think a lot of these lifestyle brands are posting the way they're posting week we talked about is early 2000, when nobody had a smartphone. And the only way to get a beautiful high def picture was with a camera.
Real cam. Right? Right. So if you had those type of pictures, yeah, it jumped out. Didn't matter what your caption was. It didn't matter what story this picture was telling. Oh, look at that photo. Well that's intriguing. I want to do more of that. But this is that was 20 years ago. Or any I can take, I can take pictures, HD pictures on my phone right now, and so can everybody else. Yes. All right, so what's behind that photo? What what what story, what what feeling are we trying to drive with this? You know, and that's I think people were still doing it that way. Are just missing the boat. Yeah. You know, but I want to. Yeah. Wanted to to, to jump back on a point that you just made as far as the people, because that's something I always talk about.
I get to question a lot. Hey, you know, we don't have this big, beautiful hotel. We've just got, insert economy brand here near the airport. You know, how do we be successful with our marketing? And on social. And, my answer is always, you have people. You have stories there. What are your suggestions on how brands can can leverage their their people in their stories in the market. And they're that they're really your brand ambassadors. You know, I think that any way that you can highlight stories, people love stories, they're memorable. And so any way that you can highlight stories, employee stories, guest stories, guests that had experiences in your hotel, anything like that video or anything that makes it look the air from Seoul to your property, you could work.
I just think that just having a person sitting in a lobby with nothing attached to it really doesn't move me. But if you have a story behind it, a nice video. You can even have the other employees do a video of support. You know? Have you always do it? You know, it just. I just think you gotta if you want to stand out, you gotta do something different. I think people are afraid of being different as it's like everybody else is doing it. I want to do it, but you can't. You gotta be the black sheep and the flock of white sheep. You gotta. You gotta be able to stand out or you or your stand by and and you just want more, you know, be able to, to do this.
Not like in my iconic framework. You mentioned the word authentic. And so in my iconic framework, I've, I created it to really help people think about, how you could be iconic and sustained growth and be, you know, maintain presence for years and years to come. And I just created this simple formula. And if if you could do it, but you got to do them all or it doesn't work. So my first one, the first quadrant, is to be unique, which is what we're talking about right now. And that that whole thing is being able to stand out from the crowd and then really talks also about your why and your purpose. What is your what, why do you do what you do? And, and that's where the whole uniqueness comes in.
And then the second quadrant is to be authentic, what you just talked about, you know, and but I talk about it also in the fact of you got to be your authentic self, but also have an empathy. Can you walk in your customer's shoes and really understand where they're coming from? If you are leading people, you know, being transparent and humble, that's all in that quadrant. And then the next quadrant is to be passionate. I'm a big passion person, Calvin. And, if you if you can, you just I believe you can accomplish so much with passionate people. And if everybody's passionate about taking care of the guests, you're going to be far ahead, trust me. And so. And if you're leading with people, if you're leading with vigor and vitality, you're excited that's going to bleed into your team.
That's going to bleed into the customer experience. Trust me, it will. I think people mirror and emulate what they see from their leadership. And if you come in every day with a woe is me attitude and all of that, it's not it's not going to help your team and and trust me, the customer feel it. And then the last one is to be consistent. And that is around really focusing on what matters most, but more importantly, never becoming too comfortable or complacent. Because sometimes success Calvin can become a barrier for innovation. I believe sometimes we get comfortable and we just we run it through. And so, But you always gotta you always gotta be looking at what's coming next, what's going, you know, staying on top of technological trends, consumer change and taste.
All of those things are critical. So I talk about that in a, in a packaged into a keynote. But I'm very serious about all of the pieces in there, because if you can get that stuff right, you're going to be you're going to be good. Everybody has their own approach and a different way of doing things, but I just I just believe that so many people are afraid of standing out. Everybody, let's do let's do what everybody else does. So we seem like we're we're in this box. But you know about my former boss. No box out the box.
Yeah. No, I love that. You know, I'll be totally transparent here on this show. Is that something that I have struggled with for the majority of running my company? Is how to bridge that gap with these clients that see themselves as luxury and life. And I'm. And I'm not saying see themselves as if they're not. Some of these are very beautiful. Oh, I'm sure I'm sure there's so many different ways to do your marketing while remaining luxurious. That doesn't look like everything. That's all already been done. Yeah, but I've never thought about it from. And I've been racking my brain is like, well, why is this such a big hurdle to jump over, you know? But I never thought about it from the standpoint of people just don't want to stand out, you know?
But we're selling hotels here in order to I mean, in competitive markets. It is it is London. You know, if everybody's doing the same thing and you're one of thousands of hotels in your city, how are you getting your customer? Yeah. And what's stopping that person from going to to the guy next door. Right. That's why there's no brand loyalty there. Yeah. You're just the person for now. You know, you, you might have had a better rate about your location, which is always good thing where you are. But but you want them select you because you have the best experience. You want them to select you because I know when I go there, they're going to make me feel great.
It's going to be a great experience, and I'm going to go tell everybody else about the come and stay here, too, because that's the trigger. Having a guest go tell their friends, relatives and colleagues about staying at your hotel is everything that's free marketing for you. You know? But if you're bland and you just I mean, they they may tell somebody. They might. Yeah. And somebody asks, hey, hey, what did you say when you went to Minnesota. Right. Oh yeah. That's such a touch up there. Yeah. Okay. It's a cool. Yeah, yeah. And take the.
Right. In. Right. That's not. But that's not that's not what you want. No that's that's just. Yeah. That exactly. That's that's just the baseline. You know quick segue will get back on point. But that's kind of what I used to talk about with, with, with my teams and talking about, like, guest reviews, you know, people would complain, oh, man. You know, well, we didn't do anything wrong. All we got was like a 3 or 4 star review, and it's like, well, because that's what we gave them. Yeah, just delivering what you're supposed to deliver. It's not a five star review. No it's not. You're not checking isn't supposed to take five minutes. It's supposed to be quick. The room supposed to be clean, right. Room service is supposed to be hot and on time. Yes. Those are things are supposed to happen. Yeah. You get five stars for exceeding that.
For being memorable. Yes, yes. And that's what people don't understand, you know. And that's why I say some things. I mean even today, like, like if you go to like a subway or something and they make my sandwich and then, hey, do you want a tip? I mean. We're, we're. Why didn't you just do what you supposed to do? I mean, it's stuff like. So. I mean, I would crack at a one of the funniest needs. I said over the past few weeks was that they say specifically talking about subway. And I was like, wait, why am I giving you a tip? It's subway. Did we make the sandwich together?
Hey, I'm telling you what a good idea. That's funny that, but you're right. Now, now. So I don't know what they can do there. But I guess my thing is that you're right. You have to go above and beyond to really get a five star. You got to do something different. And. And that means making my state better. Make me, you know, what can you do? Think about it. What can we do? And that's why I love people that do huddles in the morning with the team. See this. And I don't know if this still happens. I know I'm sure there's some out there that do it, but you, you, I don't think I don't think leadership utilizes their team enough when it when coming up with ideas and ways to do things because because if you get their ideas, they reframe the front of the customers every day in front of guests, every day.
And I think when you when you ask your team, it energizes them. It further engages them. They get you get buy in. But ask them, what can we do to help us stand out from everybody else than you? You'd be surprised the answers you will receive and, and, you know, and just make sure it get your team involved. Get your team involved. And then when you're having meetings about, you know, guest service scores, all that. And I hope, I hope a lot of people are still doing it. But telling them how the what which direction the scores are going, what you know, what things are not working well, how can we address those? Involve everybody. It just makes it makes it makes a much better experience for your employees.
And it's going to help you properly to. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, I want to, want to get into the book a bit, okay. That I know that's, something I was, I was, excited to talk to you about. And so I'm fortunate we didn't get to do this in February. So this year. Yeah. History month. Oh, it's black history month. Oh, yeah. That's it, that's it. I'm up. I think we. Calvin. Oh, yeah. Well. I mean, you could feel that way, but somebody. Is some of these. Companies out there don't. I was right, I just posted this on my story the other day that I was, I was watching I was rewatching straight out of comedy at my age, you get to that point in the night where you're like, you got to make choices. Do I mess up my lead score? Because I want to watch the last half an hour?
This movie. Right. That's what's the rest tomorrow, right. So I did the adult thing. I paused the movie. I said, I'm going to bed. I watch it tomorrow. I turn on TV the next day. So one of these streaming services, it's not there. I think it's under Continue Watching. Oh it's gone. I'm like, wow, what was I watching on something else? I thought, you know, right, it's me. I'm like, I Google now supposed to be on this one. I pull it up and like I'm searching for it, it's gone. Like, how did this movie just disappear overnight? And then I realized it's March 1st.
They'll tell me they took it down because Black History Month ended. No way. No, listen. No. I have seen movies and shows removed from streaming platforms before, right? Like, for example, we've been rewatching lost. That was on Netflix, but in the set, leaving soon, December 31st at left, it's now on Hulu. That made sense to me. At the end of the year, I was like, February is a weird time for a contract to end the Netflix. Oh, maybe they had the black movie February, right? I would hate to think that, It's like, oh, it's March 1st, go somewhere else and watch this.
That's horrible. That's horrible. Yeah. That's it. The for those of you who in my audience knows I'm a clown, so I'm joking but and listen to like this. They used to say things that make you go Yeah yeah yeah. But anyway we got to get talk to the book. It's is Black History Month all the time around here. Yeah. So we gotta, we gotta talk about this. Yeah. What what was the inspiration behind writing hidden hospitality and, Yeah, I'll just leave it at that. What was the inspiration? Well, it it started in in grad school. Honestly. Okay. A friend of mine who I work with now at the Advanced Leadership Institute, he was an undergrad at Cornell, too, and I was a graduate student, and he was a chairperson for an organization that started up there. I'm sure you're familiar with the the National Society of Minority will tell an estimate.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. So they started there and they were having one of their first conferences and he asked me to, would I, would I do some research on black hotel ownership from a historic perspective to do a presentation following the conferences. So I was like, okay, that sounds pretty interesting. And so I as I was gathering information, I just felt I just felt it in my spirit. I've always loved black history. Calvin. My mother, my mother gave me a huge I might have been 12 huge black history book when I was a kid. And then I still remember what it looked like. You know, it was this. And I would I would just thumb through this thing and I just I just loved reading the stories in there.
And, so when I was, when I was doing this research, I felt that resurgence of that excitement again. So I put together a presentation, but, I got so intrigued by it, I began, you have to write a monograph to graduate out of that program at Cornell. And it's not it's not as intense as a thesis, of course, but it has to be a pretty substantial paper. And so I wrote I wrote a like a 100 page document on this subject. It was called hospitality historiography. At the time, my publisher didn't like me not use that I don't that's not a work. So. So what ended up happening was, they give you a nice copy of the of your monograph in a beautiful black binder.
It has gold lettering on it. And so this was like 93 sometime in there. Fast forward almost 30 years, Calvin I found it. I was cleaning out some boxes and I pulled it out. It was a it was a friend of mine here. I came out of the room so excited. I was like, I found my monograph. I'm a monograph. And so she goes, what is it about? I was like, it's about black hotel ownership starts in the late 1700s, goes all the way through. She's like, oh my God, we all the hotels back then. Yeah, that's cool as well. So she, she said, let me see that thing. And so she starts reading it and I could see she was really excited about it. And, and then she looks up at me and goes, is this a book? And that was it. I was like, it's going to be now. And that was that's it. That cabinet. I can't tell you more, simpler story.
That's it. Yeah. Right. And so I called some people, you know, just to give some insight to see if, if, if, if people would be interested in it. And they were like, if you can pull that off, do it. That'll be a great contribution to this industry. Yeah. Yeah. And so that's, that's where that's how we are. That's where we are today. That thing took a took took a, took a long time to get it done. I went with a hybrid publisher. So, for those of you that don't know, own a hybrid publisher, you have to raise money first before they print the book. So I had to raise $75,000. To get 3000 copies printed.
I had put together a nice pitch deck, Calvin, to show people to help me, you know, fund the project. The American, you know, actually foundation, gave me half a front, which I was so grateful for them. And then, you know, I raised the rest of the money through, you know, Sheila Johnson game, contributed. John Rogers with area investment contributed the Southeast society of Tourism. So I had several people, some friends, putting some pulling in and and once we got to the 75, I was good. And and so, again, you never get anywhere great alone. Right. And so that was another example that, people supporting that project and getting it to, you know, to, to where it is so, super excited about it is the reception has been absolutely phenomenal.
I just love that my industry has embraced the project so much and, people coming out to book signings, supporting it. I'm just grateful, man. I just feel blessed and grateful. So what would you say is the most interesting thing you learned through making the book. The most interesting thing I learned is this. Oh, because it's a project like this take longer than you think it will. And you know, you know, you get you know, you know, you get these, visions of, oh, how be done in this amount of time. I'll be done in this amount of time. But you have to give yourself grace, particularly a project of that magnitude. It was a pretty big project. It did take a little bit longer than I wanted it to, but at the same time, and, you know, you just gotta give yourself grace.
And just the most important thing is getting it done. I always like to tell. I always like to tell people this, this story. Calvin. I as I mentioned earlier, I have two teenage boys, 16 and 18, and they saw me day after day, night after night, typing day after day of talking for years. And they come here from school, come in and they come and see me in the evening. I'm still going. And so they were like dad are you going to finish this thing. What are you going, what are you going to finish it. What is going on. When are you going to be doing so I'm like, it'll be done when it gets done. You know. And so, so, probably one of the proudest moments for me, was when I had got my first print of the book and, and handed it to them.
That was probably out of the whole project, being able to show them their finished product after they had seen me work on it for so long. Right. And then I just handed it to them and said, don't ever say you can't finish anything. So it was a great lesson for them to see if you're passionate about something and you really need to get it done, you need to finish it. And so now my oldest boy is getting ready to go to college. Probably need that lesson a lot for him. Yeah, know I don't want to hear it. Caden. You got to get it done. Exactly, exactly. So that that in itself, Calvin. That's probably one of the biggest things I am most proud of is, is them seeing that, go from pieces of the paper to a full fledged book.
Any particular stories from your research that stand out to you? Any particularly impactful ones? And there's a lot of them in there. There's so many. I'm sure a lot of, you know, probably, if you do know some history of black hotels, James Wormley, all of those guys are white, white, hot white loads. And the, but one, one guy I always talk about the most to most people, probably like they probably see me on the podcast is like, not, not it's not Joseph Lee again, I talk about Joseph Lee a lot because I just think he is the perfect example of a hotelier that that was passionate about the industry.
He was also creative, he was an innovator and his level of resilience is amazing. He had two. He had two hotels and this is like like 1906. Somewhere up in there he had two hotels, Woodland Park Hotel and the Abbotsford Beautiful properties. He lost them both to the depression, came back a year later, opened a 250 seat pavilion restaurant, did that for a little while, and then he started focusing on his catering business because he was a great cook. This was in Massachusetts and in Quincy. Everybody knew him for his cakes and baked. Oh, I mean, he just was a deal with a brilliant guy. So what ended up happening was he starts his catering business, and, he has, like, people needing bread for him, but they're not moving fast enough because he was so busy. So he gets a patent for a bread kneading machine.
Okay, then the machine was making too much bread, and then he gets a patent for a bread crumb making machine. And and so he used those bread crumbs to, to get a, differentiate his food offerings, because he would use it, the bread crumbs to coat his fish and chicken. And so people would come from all around to, to stay. And I just had this hotel. But it but the culinary experience he created for people was what made him stand out. And so what ended up happening was, though, that those machines, he sold he sold the rights to the machines, it got bought by some huge company, and those machines ended up in hotels across the nation. So he became very, very wealthy.
And, and then when he died, he's. I think his wife's name was Christiana. And I think it was, and she was on business with them all the way through. And then when he died, she kept that hotel open, and then she built another and dedicated to her husband and ran that, too. It was called Lee's Inn. And so, I mean, that's a that's a very collapsed story of all he went through. Of the people that's in there, he is one that stands out in my mind because he demonstrated all those things in that iconic framework talked about. Yeah, he was the perfect example of that. And so what's strange about it? He didn't even get he they did induct them into the, in the Innovator Hall of Fame in like 2009.
But it was like a whole century after he had gotten the first patent. You know, we didn't get the recognition we should have. There's another guy named Edwin. Barry. Edwin Cornelius Barry. He had a hotel of Athens, Ohio. He was, you know, reputed to be the first to put coat hangers in closets, first to put Bibles in the room, first to put sewing kits in the room. I mean, so but you would know all that stuff, is, is is the stories are in the book are. So some of it was so fascinating. Calvin. But but you know, you wouldn't you just would know. But I always say, you know, black history is American history. All this book does. But I don't want to say that it's minuscule, but it does fill a gap because, you know, most of the narratives you would hear about blacks in hospitality back in the day that all you heard was us in service roles like, you know, cooks, maid housekeeping, in which those were all those roles were important, don't get me wrong.
But that's not all we did right? Right. We were full entrepreneurs, built five story hotels, 100 200 rooms, which became cultural hubs in a particular area that where everybody black went to and, celebrate it. These, these people that, open these properties and I like to call them the race people because they built them for their race. You couldn't stake white hotels. And so they were like, you know what? We're going to build someplace where our people can feel respected and have dignity and rest their heads and feel safe. And that's what they did. And I always tell people when you read, when you read through, always keep in mind the time we're talking about. We're not talking about today. We're talking about where the nation with the most extreme discrimination, and they were able to accomplish that.
That's why I say this book is inspiring to anybody, regardless of your race or religion or whoever. Those stories could inspire you. We have a lot of things, and I at our disposal now that they didn't have. And they made it happen, so. Right. You don't have any excuses. If you want to do something, go out there and fulfill your dream. But you can see it right there on paper. They they made it happen. So I know I went off on a soapbox right there, but it's you. Know, I ask you the question, man. Is what we're here for. Yeah, man, I, I just think that, it was just important. Those were important narratives that we needed to see. Needed to.
See. Final question. Because I think this is a powerful note to end on. If someone that if when someone reads hidden, hidden hospitality, what's the one thing you hope they never forget about the history of hospitality? I hope they just never forget and they won't be able to after they read it. That we helped build that landscape too, you know. And I know we know about the Marriotts, the Hiltons and the Caymans, Wilsons of the world, which are totally grateful for their contributions to the landscape of hospitality. But I want I want people to also understand that African Americans made a huge, huge contribution as well.
And so what I'm hoping when they finish reading it, they realize and say, wow, this was a part of of American history. I just didn't know. But I know now, I know now. So you can't you can't act like you. You can't be blind to it once you read it. You know what you what you've read it that's in your spirit and it's in your soul. And now, you know, you can go share those stories with other people. So, that's what I hope they walk away with, really having an appreciation for what African Americans did for this industry.
It's been a pleasure, man. Yeah. Yeah, that, that, you know, we've been connected for some years following what you do. Really proud of everything I see you doing, man. Great. You care for YouTube, brother? YouTube man. And thank you for having me today. One day we going to meet in person. We going to shake hands. We will, we will, we will make that happen for sure. But yeah, let the audience know where they can find you more. Where can they get hidden hospitality and, and and connect with you. Okay. My email is Calvin at Iconic Presentations dot net. If you're particularly interested in purchasing a copy of Hidden Hospitality, you can go to Calvin stovall.com. There is a tab there that says when you go to shop or the tab, it says direct order. You can use that one. The author gets more money that route.
Let me direct order and order it there and it'll be shipped to you. But yeah, Calvin Stovall com I'm on, I'm on, ag iconic speaker. Is my my handle there and, you know, of course, I'm on LinkedIn. You can just find me, there as well. So man, again, appreciate appreciate everybody's support. And, thank you again for having me on here. Cal. Appreciate that. Of course. It's been a pleasure. And we will see you all on the next one. All right. Salute.
